Eclipse Community

Kouto wrote: ↑14 May 2021, 01:02 "Just accepting the fact that 7 is "dead" and upgrading to 10 way too soon is not an option."

Kinda like how no one expected the extended kernel for Vista, yet @win32 done it. Absolute fucking mastermind. Also worth mentioning is that I bet a 7 KernelEx could easily run those artificially blocked 8.x-10 applications in a similar vein

CalmCreeper360 wrote: ↑13 May 2021, 09:44

Tonny52 wrote: ↑13 May 2021, 02:25

R3n wrote: ↑13 May 2021, 02:00

If you boost 7's marketshare, developers will support it for longer. 7000 and 4000 series could work on 7 if we show them that 7 is still a decent platform.

7 is definitely still a decent platform, but I don't know how 1-100 people switching to 7 would be enough to change the marketshare, when w7 stil lruns on a few hundred million PCs. Most of them being workplaces, but a majority still being normal consumers.

Still tho, Windows 7 still holds a marketshare of about 20% and i doubt that software developers will take the risk and miss out 20% of all PC users (potential customers) by dropping support for 7.

And regardless of how hopeless the situation is in keeping up the marketshare:

Never give up the fight! Every single device counts!

Just think of the scene in the movie "Braveheart" when a hand full of scotish farmers are about to fight against the most well organized, well trained, well equipped and well funded army of the world (at the time) the English.
Just go ahead and watch the scene if you havent.
You will see that we are in the EXACT SAME position at the moment just with legacy software battling big tech companies.
Just accepting the fact that 7 is "dead" and upgrading to 10 way too soon is not an option.
There is always a small chance that the next generation of software/hardware (although its very unlikely) will support 7 and we can only do our best in increasing that chance by having as many devices actively run 7 as possible.

Maybe we cant make Windows 7 live forever, but we can certainly do our best in extend its life by not upgrading and having as many devices run 7 as possible, because as long as the marketshare is at least at 15%, a lot of software developers (especially smaller 3rd party developers) wont take the risk of dropping support for 7.


Running away never did any good


Thats all i had to say...

Win10-Hater wrote: ↑14 May 2021, 10:46

CalmCreeper360 wrote: ↑13 May 2021, 09:44

Tonny52 wrote: ↑13 May 2021, 02:25

7 is definitely still a decent platform, but I don't know how 1-100 people switching to 7 would be enough to change the marketshare, when w7 stil lruns on a few hundred million PCs. Most of them being workplaces, but a majority still being normal consumers.

Still tho, Windows 7 still holds a marketshare of about 20% and i doubt that software developers will take the risk and miss out 20% of all PC users (potential customers) by dropping support for 7.

And regardless of how hopeless the situation is in keeping up the marketshare:

Never give up the fight! Every single device counts!

Just think of the scene in the movie "Braveheart" when a hand full of scotish farmers are about to fight against the most well organized, well trained, well equipped and well funded army of the world (at the time) the English.
Just go ahead and watch the scene if you havent.
You will see that we are in the EXACT SAME position at the moment just with legacy software battling big tech companies.
Just accepting the fact that 7 is "dead" and upgrading to 10 way too soon is not an option.
There is always a small chance that the next generation of software/hardware (although its very unlikely) will support 7 and we can only do our best in increasing that chance by having as many devices actively run 7 as possible.

Maybe we cant make Windows 7 live forever, but we can certainly do our best in extend its life by not upgrading and having as many devices run 7 as possible, because as long as the marketshare is at least at 15%, a lot of software developers (especially smaller 3rd party developers) wont take the risk of dropping support for 7.


Running away never did any good


Thats all i had to say...

Absolutely! Windows 10 is trash and it will always be. I don't ever think MS would fix it completely and impress me or other Windows 10 haters.
Every single device counts! Windows 10 is no more secure than Windows 2000, if the user knows what exactly he/she is doing.
Updates increase your security much lesser than they make under-the-hood kernel and UX improvements, but yeah, some updates are harmful.

We must do our part to increase older Windows versions' marketshare and not promote the unreliable, bloated, spying, FisherPrice-looking, hateable Windows 10.

Tonny52 wrote: ↑14 May 2021, 04:21 So I'm moving that Precison system to 2012 R2, and I suddenly felt something.

When I opened the start menu, it had GPU drivers so I saw the fluent of 10. Honestly, in my opinion, I kind of prefer the more intense blur on 1803+. It suddenly made me feel something. How useful is LTSC 2019?

If its not a worthy option, is it possible to sort of increase the 7 blur intensity?

Tonny52 wrote: ↑14 May 2021, 12:30 The few problems I have on 7 are that whenever I alt tab to anything and go back in to the game, my game FPS is around 10-25 FPS for a few seconds then it goes back up to 60. This also happens when I get that "You need to restart to install updates" pop up. I know its 100% a Discord issue since when Discord is fully closed, this never happens.

What I am feeling right now is something I haven't felt in a long time which is why I am confused. I managed to get over the big change hump at the start after trying out 7 for just 4 days so far after using 10 for 6 years straight. I can't really describe what I am feeling, but I believe it opened my eyes more on actually how horrible 10 is.

I just can't get myself to fully remove 10 from my life.

Tonny52 wrote: ↑14 May 2021, 12:30 The few problems I have on 7 are that whenever I alt tab to anything and go back in to the game, my game FPS is around 10-25 FPS for a few seconds then it goes back up to 60. This also happens when I get that "You need to restart to install updates" pop up. I know its 100% a Discord issue since when Discord is fully closed, this never happens.

What I am feeling right now is something I haven't felt in a long time which is why I am confused. I managed to get over the big change hump at the start after trying out 7 for just 4 days so far after using 10 for 6 years straight. I can't really describe what I am feeling, but I believe it opened my eyes more on actually how horrible 10 is.

I just can't get myself to fully remove 10 from my life.

Tonny52 wrote: ↑14 May 2021, 12:30 I just can't get myself to fully remove 10 from my life.

Win10-Hater wrote: ↑15 May 2021, 06:56

Tonny52 wrote: ↑14 May 2021, 12:30 I just can't get myself to fully remove 10 from my life.

I got myself to remove the Windows 10 abomination from my life and I will never touch it again, either of my own free will or involuntarily.
I never thought this would be possible until late last year though.
Windows 10 is nothing but bad, so better avoid it. Keep trying!

You could use Windows 7 as a single boot config if you want, but I'd recommend a dualboot of Win7 and 8.x on your main PC.

Tonny52 wrote: ↑14 May 2021, 12:44 But if I want to avoid that I can use LTSC.

Tonny52 wrote: ↑17 May 2021, 01:48 I might make a system image of 7 right now then upgrade to 8.1.I still have problems where programs get their FPS limited to 45ish. This happens when there are 2 monitors added.but mainly I just don't like installing 3rd party apps to make my PC work well.

Tonny52 wrote: ↑21 May 2021, 15:05 If you were forced to use Win10, what build would you use?

Tonny52 wrote: ↑21 May 2021, 15:05 If you were forced to use Win10, what build would you use?

SkyeWeeb wrote: ↑08 Jun 2021, 00:08 Oh boy.

Windows 10 may be the absolute worst experience I've ever had with Windows in my entire life. I've used it even before the damn thing even released. I joined the Insider Program and installed insider builds in the shitty laptop I had at the time around 10049. I used 9926 in a VM beforehand and the performance was awful. Under real hardware, it was around the same as 8.1. When I got a new PC later that year and around when Windows 10 RTM'd, performance was still okay, but around a year later, I realized how shit customizing Windows was compared to 7 and 8.x, and eventually UWP as a whole broke, along with Windows letting me log into my user account. It instead logged me into some temporary account. I decided to dual boot the damn thing with Windows 7 sometime after that. I still used Windows 10 every now and then on it, but the performance slowly got worse and worse with each feature update. Meanwhile, both Windows 7 and 8.1 ran like a dream. I currently run it dualbooted with Windows 10 20H2 and Windows 7, and Windows 10 literally takes around 2 minutes to dismiss the lock screen from hibernation. The boot process after the boot screen also takes another minute itself, maybe more. I have it stripped down and turned off any telemetry bullshit, and it's still extremely slow, at least booting up.

That's not the end of my rant though. I still wouldn't use Windows 10 even if the UI was unchanged since Windows 7, you know why? Due to msstyles being so damn limited ever since the taskbar got changed and the caption buttons being so big a blind grandma or a toddler can see them. You simply can NOT make Windows 10 look good. I personally hate what Windows 10's default UI looks like, other than the new Sun Valley stuff, that looks okay. At least under Windows 8.1 you could install Classic Shell or SIB and theme the entire OS to look like Windows 7. You can sort of do that under Windows 10, but the results are dogshit and also reset 99% of the time if you do a feature update that you have no choice but to upgrade to. Again, if updates could be disabled ever since the fucking beginning of Windows Update in Windows 98, why can't an OS nearly two decades newer than it do it? To baby the users? Or is it so people fork over money to buy Windows 10 Pro? Yes, I do know LTSB/LTSC exists, but NOBODY OUTSIDE BUSINESSES AND THE WINDOWS COMMUNITY USES IT. Must I remind you about 1809 and how that update deleted users' files? Or what about all the bricked PCs Windows 10 caused due to a forced bad update? Or how about the entire GWX fiasco that forced a ton of Windows 7 and 8.1 users onto Windows 10 against their will? Even MS themselves knew back in the Longhorn days to not baby the user. Guess that shit got thrown out the window. This point is pretty damn obvious to anyone with a functional brain now, but Windows 10 is taking away pretty much any control the user had beforehand. It has had telemetry in the OS ever since the beginning, and only seems to have gotten worse as time went on. The OOBE for Windows 10 forces you to uncheck a fuckton of pill buttons, make sure you don't connect to the Internet so you're not forced to sign in to a Microsoft account (that's another point entirely but you get my point), and wait for 20 years as each screen takes so damn long to load, when Windows XP had seeming so much more to load yet you can finish that OOBE in about 30 seconds. That's not even all, even if you uncheck all those boxes, you still get spied on afterwards. You need to use something like Winaero Tweaker just to remove it entirely. I would've also recommended Spybot Anti-Beacon if they didn't start to force people to fork over money to take back their privacy. Yes, Windows 8 also pulled this shit, but its to a much less degree, and unchecking the pill buttons in OOBE disables it all essentially. And also, I do know Windows 8.1 and 7 got the telemetry 10 has through an update. Since it's before Windows 10, you can just memorize the KBs and not install those updates. Also, where did their beta testers go after Windows 8.1 you may ask? They fucking laid them off so they could have stupid children and people who don't know what they're talking about go into the Insider Program, use Insider builds on their main PC, and either not use the Feedback app, put stupid shit inside the Feedback app, and if there's someone who DOES use the Feedback app and knows what they're talking about, MS seemingly ignores it. EVERY other version of Windows at least had build labs and testers who knew what they were talking about and how to actually fix issues. Children are not beta testers, Microsoft. This is why Windows 10 has been an unstable mess for so damn long. Or maybe it's because they fuck over literally every single person who uses an HDD like myself with a service that's been in the OS since 17xx that's totally not there to slow down the OS so people cave in and buy SSDs.

If Windows 11 is actually coming, which I doubt, I'm pretty sure it won't be any better than Windows 10. It'll just be the same bullshit with a new coat of paint. If you ask me, a development reset all the way back to Windows 8.1 should've been in check years ago, or ditching windows NT entirely. But whatever, who am I to talk? I'm gonna end up moving to Mint once I finally get a new PC anyway and ditching Windows outside of VMs entirely. You can 100% blame Windows 10 for that.

Kouto wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021, 19:20 >I don't like linux

Mind explaining why? I admittedly dislike aspects of it but there's things I really wish I could do in windows easily (native ssh support, commandline isn't nearly as shit, things tend to say what they mean unlike windows, package management etc)

(20min boot times? ... that sounds like a win10 bug they're blindly ignoring)

Kouto wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021, 19:34 >Games aren't possible

Literally the only thing that stops native ports is vendor lock-in greed and as you say Proton is brilliant for what it's doing. I guess I don't exactly game myself but I do wonder why people get so huffed up about it the way they do, especially given what games are like these days...