My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

They made Windows 10 worse somehow.
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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by K4sum1 »

Please read the entirety of this post.

Microsoft's official response to requiring TPM 2.0 and secure boot is security, which could actually be true, although, I think there's a bigger goal in forcing TPM 2.0 and secure boot on the user.

All the way back in 2013, the German government had some concerns regarding TPM 2.0 and Windows 8.

Some highlights from the article are:
"The tech is designed to stop the use of software and files which do not contain the correct digital rights permissions (thus protecting the property of vendors behind the protocols), including "unauthorised operating systems" (a specific function of the much-maligned Secure Boot)."
What's being said is TPM can be used to lock down what software can run on a machine and lock down what OS a user can choose. Microsoft didn't act upon this at the time because it would have just caused even more backlash. Now TPM 2.0 and secure boot have had 8+ years to find itself included in modern hardware, usually enabled by default. Most people have either forgotten about this, never knew about it, or no longer have any hardware that doesn't have TPM 2.0+, and that's if they even care.
"A machine that contains a Trusted Platform Module and runs software adhering to the Trusted Computing specifications is, arguably, under the control of the vendor – in this case Microsoft. It also identifies the machine to the vendor, meaning that users' identities can be linked to their machines as well as their online activities. As Redmond is a US firm, opponents to the protocols argue, users' data is theoretically accessible to US spooks in the National Security Agency via the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, as Die Zeit points out."
Windows 10 was filled to the brim with telemetry, and plenty of it can not be disabled no matter what, some of it even bypassing the hosts file. Microsoft has also made Windows Defender treat a hosts file meant to block telemetry as malware, but that's another topic for another time. TPM 2.0 can help Microsoft collect even more identifiers and data from users, if not already being secretly used in Windows 10 for this same goal.
"It warned of "the loss of full sovereignty over information technology" and that "the security objectives of confidentiality' and integrity are no longer guaranteed"."
They're warning of the user losing full control over their computer(s) with decreased security on top of that. If Microsoft gets a(nother) backdoor, someone may find a spare key (to any one) at any point. There's also government agencies as well as whoever Microsoft may be selling the data to also worry about.
"The use of 'Trusted Computing'... in this form ... is unacceptable for the federal administration and the operators of critical infrastructure."
They warn that TPM 2.0 is unacceptable for federal and critical infrastructure tasks.
"Once this is rolled out across all Windows-using PCS, the Germans fear, there will be "simply no way to tell what exactly Microsoft does to its system through remote updates"."
One of Windows 10's goals was to force updates upon the user, with TPM 2.0, this can further this goal, locking down Windows Update even further for the home and professional user. I doubt Microsoft would also do this with the Server versions of their operating systems, but it's still very much possible. However, the rumors of Server 2022 still being 10 based could be an indicator of their plans.
"the use of Windows 8 in combination with a TPM 2.0 is accompanied by a loss of control over the operating system and the hardware used."
Self explanatory.
"The Register previously described Trusted Computing as the "widely derided idea of computing secured for, and against, its users"."
Also self explanatory.

My hypothesis is that Microsoft is finally acting upon this goal since most people have long since moved on from this, and that they've ended up somehow liking 10. Part of me believes that this will end up as another Windows 8, but in the way that it's actually bad and not just being misunderstood like 8. The other part of me believes that Microsoft will pull another 10 and force upgrade most users to 11, giving them 0 choice over this, making people eventually tolerate 11 and forget about how much better 10, 8.x, 7, etc were.

I recommend that everyone reading this post use a pre-10 operating system, and/or disable TPM from your computers BIOS or even better, physically remove the TPM chip from your computer.
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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by Moline »

Windows 7 could be dual-booted with 11 if we can figure out how to make it work with Secure Boot. If you take a look here http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/guide-how-to-install-windows-7-x64-on-acer-spin-5-laptop.829379/ this guide shows us how to get Windows 7 working under newer UEFI modes. This brings us one step closer, but it does not mention anything, as far as I know, about getting it to work with Secure Boot as well. If we can get it to work, we can dual-boot. Dual-booting Windows 8.1 and 10 (should you want to) is just as easy as preparing the driver with Rufus or similar and selecting the GPT (UEFI) mode and leaving Secure Boot enabled. If anyone wants to take up the research to getting 7 to work on UEFI/Secure Boot combo (instead of only UEFI with Secure Boot disabled), be my guest.
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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

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Moline wrote: 08 Jul 2021, 17:00 Windows 7 could be dual-booted with 11 if we can figure out how to make it work with Secure Boot. If you take a look here http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/guide-how-to-install-windows-7-x64-on-acer-spin-5-laptop.829379/ this guide shows us how to get Windows 7 working under newer UEFI modes. This brings us one step closer, but it does not mention anything, as far as I know, about getting it to work with Secure Boot as well. If we can get it to work, we can dual-boot. Dual-booting Windows 8.1 and 10 (should you want to) is just as easy as preparing the driver with Rufus or similar and selecting the GPT (UEFI) mode and leaving Secure Boot enabled. If anyone wants to take up the research to getting 7 to work on UEFI/Secure Boot combo (instead of only UEFI with Secure Boot disabled), be my guest.
https://github.com/Mattiwatti/EfiGuard/wiki/Secure-boot-on-Windows-7
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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by OwnedByWuigi »

wR3n wrote: 09 Jul 2021, 03:56
Moline wrote: 08 Jul 2021, 17:00 Windows 7 could be dual-booted with 11 if we can figure out how to make it work with Secure Boot. If you take a look here http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/guide-how-to-install-windows-7-x64-on-acer-spin-5-laptop.829379/ this guide shows us how to get Windows 7 working under newer UEFI modes. This brings us one step closer, but it does not mention anything, as far as I know, about getting it to work with Secure Boot as well. If we can get it to work, we can dual-boot. Dual-booting Windows 8.1 and 10 (should you want to) is just as easy as preparing the driver with Rufus or similar and selecting the GPT (UEFI) mode and leaving Secure Boot enabled. If anyone wants to take up the research to getting 7 to work on UEFI/Secure Boot combo (instead of only UEFI with Secure Boot disabled), be my guest.
https://github.com/Mattiwatti/EfiGuard/wiki/Secure-boot-on-Windows-7
You can boot XP on UEFI with files from Longhorn builds that supported UEFI.

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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by Dibya »

Chill guys we are working on UEFI Secureboot capable NTLDR bootloader for XP/server 2003.
If it can boot XP, it will boot 7.

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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by MelonicOverlord »

Well, although it MAY be for security and probably will help with security, it might be something more complex as you say. All I know is I sure goddamn hope I have TPM because those modules have gone up in price like GPU's
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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by K4sum1 »

Dibya wrote: 09 Jul 2021, 13:43 Chill guys we are working on UEFI Secureboot capable NTLDR bootloader for XP/server 2003.
If it can boot XP, it will boot 7.
How
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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

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Dibya wrote: 11 Jul 2021, 04:01 https://github.com/maharmstone/quibble
It based on this one
Why not just support it with pull requests?
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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

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We dont know long time effects of our code , I want to avoid bad press.
Just wait few years we will

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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by mjdxp »

Windows 11 hardware requirements are absolutely cursed. Why does it require a webcam, for example? There's absolutely no reason why you should need a webcam in order to install Windows 11. Seems like Microsoft wants to get to know you a bit more.

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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by K4sum1 »

mjdxp wrote: 11 Jul 2021, 11:32 Windows 11 hardware requirements are absolutely cursed. Why does it require a webcam, for example? There's absolutely no reason why you should need a webcam in order to install Windows 11. Seems like Microsoft wants to get to know you a bit more.
From what I've heard, Microsoft is requiring Windows 11 laptops to sell with webcams, not that the user needs one.
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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by SkyeWeeb »

wR3n wrote: 12 Jul 2021, 03:31 From what I've heard, Microsoft is requiring Windows 11 laptops to sell with webcams, not that the user needs one.
Duct tape sales are about to skyrocket.
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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by OwnedByWuigi »

SkyeWeeb wrote: 12 Jul 2021, 06:45
wR3n wrote: 12 Jul 2021, 03:31 From what I've heard, Microsoft is requiring Windows 11 laptops to sell with webcams, not that the user needs one.
Duct tape sales are about to skyrocket.
"With the power of Flex Tape, I can protect my privacy from Windows 11!"

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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by OwnedByWuigi »

SkyeWeeb wrote: 12 Jul 2021, 06:45
wR3n wrote: 12 Jul 2021, 03:31 From what I've heard, Microsoft is requiring Windows 11 laptops to sell with webcams, not that the user needs one.
Duct tape sales are about to skyrocket.
But seriously, I think MS just wants to fuck with the economy rather then invading our privacy by skyrocketing duct tape and TPM chip remover sales.
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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by mjdxp »

Or some OEMs paid Microsoft to make their new OS only be compatible with newer machines so people would go out and buy new computers.

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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by MassClaw »

Yeah, they want to catch up with the GPU shortage to their advantage, people have been getting on the laptop bandwagon as of late cementing this theory even further.

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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by Bird »

What about hardware builders who don't care about Windows 11? Will small niche computers like the Raspberry Pi be an option then? It depends of course, how much CPU power is needed. But seeing many of these small computers appear, it can't be that hard for them to make reasonable numbers of proper boards without the TPM chip, right? Or does Microsoft have the monopoly on hardware?

A quick research showed that a TPM chip has to be bought as an auxilliary for the Raspberry Pi. Otherwise, getting a backup solution from the scrapyard could always be an option. A computer of... let's say 2007, is capable of many things, even online.

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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

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Bird wrote: 14 Jul 2021, 08:04 What about hardware builders who don't care about Windows 11? Will small niche computers like the Raspberry Pi be an option then? It depends of course, how much CPU power is needed. But seeing many of these small computers appear, it can't be that hard for them to make reasonable numbers of proper boards without the TPM chip, right? Or does Microsoft have the monopoly on hardware?

A quick research showed that a TPM chip has to be bought as an auxilliary for the Raspberry Pi. Otherwise, getting a backup solution from the scrapyard could always be an option. A computer of... let's say 2007, is capable of many things, even online.
They just want to access you Intel Management Engine or AMD Trusted Platform for obvious reason , full control over your system , you will not own your computer , OS will thus easy for FBI/NSA other Government Spyware to break into. They can turn on your computer when they want and spy you with Webcam as they please. Good bye Freedom Good bye small and medium sizes business.

Soon they will declare small and medium size system builder are not good enough to adhere to their "Secuirity Standar" , you know where its going.

I know how one of my friend's idea and Circuit diagram got stolen by a company in Florida , before he even patented. FBI/NSA dont protect you my people , they help corporate thugs to steal your stuff.

Even police broke into Schiit audio headquarter to steal their computer for their competitor ( A corporate hag )
https://www.schiit.com/

Same crap happen in India t, Cannot find corporate thugs stealing money but will attack small startup . less frequent than USA but happens.

To get their no right to privacy

And oh that Right vs Left drama in Media is to keep public ignorant and stupid.

Tech companies have taken over our lives

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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

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Here you Windows 365

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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

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I guess I just stay on Vista :D
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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by LuckyCryWinScenic »

I'm now back in the forum after a month or week long hiatus here because of massive boredom. As i actually think why this TPM fiasco in Windows 11 is did happened, i did learn back in June that Win11 needs TPM and Secure Boot, not by VM file name. The TPM requirement it could be suspected by two things and potential conspiracy:

1. More spying. They just want you to get TPM for their Windows Hello alongside more and more telemetry, even the Smartscreen (this is also the issue on Windows 8 and later, instead Smartscreen will check with MS on unverified apps, instead it's spying on the MOSSAD or potential CIA agents)

2. They just want you to buy a new hardware and even force you to buy TPM. Thats when people make hundreds of videos related to bypassing the issue on the original ISO.

Luckily my Kaby Lake laptop is not applicable for Windows 11 upgrade.

If Windows 11 will be released in October, well it will not be good, like the bad Vista days in 2006.
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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by Iceman »

I don't like conformity either. TPM 2.0 sounds like a positive thing on paper, but quite the opposite argument as everyone has already stated on this thread. In today's time of supercomputing, anything is possible. Anything can be manipulated, with the right tactics and brains involved. I don't believe this will be a "kill all", just hindering us from progression. That said, only temporarily.

New hardware, Motherboards may be intertwined with this tech, but what about taking a step back and focusing on the BIOS? What about manipulating the BIOS into making the system believe something otherwise? BIOS mods are not a specialty of mine, nor have they ever been. Just throwing that out there.
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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by LuckyCryWinScenic »

I've heard this article from The Verge something related to Windows 11 requirements:
https://www.theverge.com/22644194/microsoft-windows-11-minimum-system-requirements-processors-changes

I think Windows 11 might be supported on older CPUs outside of 8th Gen Intel, but the bad news is still updates blocked for some reasons if the CPU is not supported.
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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by Kouto »

Requiring TPM 2.0, Secure Boot/UEFI (and removing a piece of the 'Windows Label' specification from the Windows 8.x days that forced vendors to allow it to be switched off in the BIOS settings on anything that wasn't an AIO piece of crap) and a webcam...

... the best conclusion here is that they're trying to push Linux out of the window in terms of modern hardware entirely, and make it entirely a thing for 'tech geeks only' for the rest of time. They've clearly caught on that a lot of ordinary people have started dual booting and it's fucked them off enough to warrant doing this so only a few select distros that they approve of (and can therefore shake hands on, see: Ubuntu/Canonical) will ever end up on PCs - giving anything free such as Debian no chance to progress outside server environments that hardly ever require hardware upgrades anyway.

Requiring all sorts of hardware that is going to be difficult to support on Linux to be present seems like a reasonable tactic as it will anger the average user, as well as TPM presumably allowing MS to collect usage data from other OSes if they have any kind of signed agreement (which they likely do with Canonical, I'd imagine).

Mostly speculation, but whatever.

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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by tyl0413 »

It'll be used to enforce DRM on the hardware level for everything like valorant does currently. You know it very well where this is going. You said something someone got butthurt over online ? You say something you "shouldn't" near your PC that's now most likely listening 24/7? Your PC Is bricked.
Microsoft rolled out an option to remove your password completely from your account and use biometrics only instead, all new PCs have to come with cameras oh isn't that just convenient, full china style.
Apple gonna scan your local drive, MS gonna enforce Twitter TOS on your hardware, soon you literally can not take part in society without a smart phone loaded up with government spyware what great times we got ahead of us.

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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by penis mf »

mjdxp wrote: 11 Jul 2021, 11:32 Windows 11 hardware requirements are absolutely cursed. Why does it require a webcam, for example? There's absolutely no reason why you should need a webcam in order to install Windows 11. Seems like Microsoft wants to get to know you a bit more.
Well, Probably to Spy on you and collect your user data via their $$$ Teams App i guess.


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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by K4sum1 »

Pluton could also be adding to this.
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My theory as to why Microsoft is attempting to force TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11

Unread post by SatoshiHikari »

here is a video that explains that theory well
                                                      

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