(Tangent alert) Why does modern Firefox suck so much?

YouTube · Unread post by **the_r3dacted** » 18 Apr 2026, 13:39

The-10-Pen wrote: ↑18 Apr 2026, 13:24 Um, are you asking me to download a HUNDRED different nightly builds and test each and every HUNDRED ???
Well, in a nutshell - NO!

Narrow that list of HUNDRED (no, I didn't count, but those FTPs are GIGANTIC) down to ten or so and SURE, yeah, I can do that.

No, that's inefficient. Take the first 149 build and the last 149 build to get a baseline. Extract them, delete the update.exe and pingsender.exe so it doesn't do stupid shit. Run the browser from a .bat file containing `firefox.exe -profile Profile` so it uses a self contained profile, and test. After that baseline, go somewhere in the middle, repeat. If faster, skip a bit later, test. If slower skip a bit before, test. Narrow it down that way.

Unread post by **Duke** » 18 Apr 2026, 13:41

The-10-Pen wrote: ↑18 Apr 2026, 12:22 I have too many streaming apps that don't work on Ungoogled Chromium.

Interesting. Which ones ?

The-10-Pen wrote: ↑18 Apr 2026, 12:22 These are the "font fixes" I use in Chromium/Chrome/Edge

Please can you check these pages with Chromium:
https://www.unicode.org/Public/emoji/latest/emoji-test.txt
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Unicode/Character_reference/1F000-1FFFF

The-10-Pen · Unread post by **The-10-Pen** » 18 Apr 2026, 13:44

So just from those two, the very first 149 was SLOWER than 148.
And every 149 since that first just got SLOWER.
I'll grab one "in the middle" (Feb 2nd) here shortly.

Unread post by **Duke** » 18 Apr 2026, 13:46

the_r3dacted wrote: ↑18 Apr 2026, 13:06 uMatrix is not the same sort of content blocker as uBlock Origin. They're kinda made to be used together, which I do.

You may also want to check this one (remember RequestPolicy):
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tprb/

The-10-Pen · Unread post by **The-10-Pen** » 18 Apr 2026, 13:54

first = 452
middle = 416
last = 407

That seems like enough data points to me. 149 just got slower and slower and slower with each and every nightly.

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YouTube · Unread post by **the_r3dacted** » 18 Apr 2026, 13:55

The-10-Pen wrote: ↑18 Apr 2026, 13:44 So just from those two, the very first 149 was SLOWER than 148.
And every 149 since that first just got SLOWER.
I'll grab one "in the middle" (Feb 2nd) here shortly.

Yeah, the nightly builds are built with less optimizations (afaik could be wrong) as building with LTO and PGO and such increases the amount of time required to build. So for something they need to compile 1-2 times per day, I could see them wanting to skip that process.

It could also be that the time from last nightly to first release (I think like 1-2 months) resulted in more optimizations being added or performance reducing bugs being fixed.

Duke wrote: ↑18 Apr 2026, 13:46
the_r3dacted wrote: ↑18 Apr 2026, 13:06 uMatrix is not the same sort of content blocker as uBlock Origin. They're kinda made to be used together, which I do.
You may also want to check this one (remember RequestPolicy):
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tprb/

I don't think I've ever used RequestPolicy, and I'm not sure how this would be better. It looks like it does the same thing as uMatrix but with less fine grained control.

The-10-Pen wrote: ↑18 Apr 2026, 13:54 first = 452
middle = 416
last = 407

That seems like enough data points to me. 149 just got slower and slower and slower with each and every nightly.

416 to 407 is small enough that it could just be run variance. The +- is literally 39.

The-10-Pen · Unread post by **The-10-Pen** » 18 Apr 2026, 14:05

Duke wrote: ↑18 Apr 2026, 13:41 Please can you check these pages with Chromium:
https://www.unicode.org/Public/emoji/latest/emoji-test.txt
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Unicode/Character_reference/1F000-1FFFF

You're on a different train of thought.
UCyborg and I have a history of discussing Chrome fonts so we just picked up where we last left off (I add this part to not end in a preposition).
We're talking about how "thin and faded" some fonts are on Chrome, we're not talking about fonts that cannot render.

Here is a 2x zoom-in *without* my font fixes:

: 2026-04-18_10-00-48.jpg (45.48 KiB) Viewed 601 times

Here is a 2x zoom-in *with* my font fixes:

: 2026-04-18_10-02-47.jpg (46.21 KiB) Viewed 601 times

Unread post by **Duke** » 18 Apr 2026, 14:12

The-10-Pen wrote: ↑18 Apr 2026, 14:05 You're on a different train of thought.
We're talking about how "thin and faded" some fonts are on Chrome, we're not talking about fonts that cannot render.

Yes, I know. I just jumped on the train because it reminded me about Chromium having troubles to display some emojis, at least on Windows 8.1.
So I just want to know how it behaves for you on Windows 10, if possible.

The-10-Pen · Unread post by **The-10-Pen** » 18 Apr 2026, 14:22

Well, on the unicode.org emoji test, the best way to "quantify" is a ctrl-f search and let it count the results.

fully-qualified = 3,948 with 3 being in the top paragraph and not really within the font subgroups
minimally-qualified = 1,033 with 3 being in top paragraph
unqualified = 247 with 3 being in top paragraph

The-10-Pen · Unread post by **The-10-Pen** » 18 Apr 2026, 14:24

That second web site has no way for me to report a quantified result.
Aside from me manually counting "squares" representing an un-rendered font (which I'm not going to count, sorry).

The-10-Pen · Unread post by **The-10-Pen** » 18 Apr 2026, 14:35

the_r3dacted wrote: ↑18 Apr 2026, 13:55 416 to 407 is small enough that it could just be run variance. The +- is literally 39.

While statistically true, I DISAGREE, v149 just got SLOWER and SLOWER with each nighly build.

Here's why I *DISAGREE*.
Multiple runs "cluster" and statistically indicate an accurate clustering.
In gun-shooting speak, the scores hit the nose each and every time, none of the bullets hit the chin, forehead, or ears.
A very tight CLUSTERING.

I'll redownload and test again. But again, the clustering is all on the NOSE.
That run variance is NOT what you think it is.

The-10-Pen · Unread post by **The-10-Pen** » 18 Apr 2026, 15:22

This is going to be my last run (at least for today).
I kind of have to feel like you are "making excuses" for v149, sorry, that's just how it sounds TO ME, lol.

Jan 12 v149 multiple Speedometer 2.1 scoring
1) 448 +/- 18
2) 457 +/- 7.1
3) 453 +/- 14
4) 455 +/- 14
5) 452 +/- 11
AVERAGE: 453

Feb 2 v149 multiple Speedometer 2.1 scoring
1) 448 +/- 23
2) 457 +/- 8.1
3) 448 +/- 7.2
4) 454 +/- 12
5) 444 +/- 12
AVERAGE: 450.5

Feb 23 v149 multiple Speedometer 2.1 scoring
1) 446 +/- 21
2) 450 +/- 8.9
3) 451 +/- 12
4) 448 +/- 10
5) 441 +/- 15
AVERAGE: 447.2

Q.E.D.
v149 just got slower and slower and slower with each nightly.
Sure, not "night and day" speed differences, but slower is slower is slower is slower.

If you want a "faster 'fox", STICK WITH v148 !!!

The-10-Pen · Unread post by **The-10-Pen** » 18 Apr 2026, 15:43

Disregard on v148 being faster. I'm not seeing that to be honest.
But this is also taking up way too much time.
I would have to do further studies, but it seems to me that the NIGHTLY v148 is SLOWER than the STABLE v148.

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YouTube · Unread post by **the_r3dacted** » 18 Apr 2026, 15:48

The-10-Pen wrote: ↑18 Apr 2026, 15:22 This is going to be my last run (at least for today).
I kind of have to feel like you are "making excuses" for v149, sorry, that's just how it sounds TO ME, lol.

I think I was thinking at this the way I do browser issues, in that it either works or it doesn't. In which there is one specific last version where a given thing works, and one first version with it doesn't. I guess that is not the case for issues like this idk.

The-10-Pen · Unread post by **The-10-Pen** » 18 Apr 2026, 15:58

Maybe (just MAYBE!), I may have been biased by the original A.I. query.

That *and* another poster cited the same, that he noticed a speed DOWNGRADE:

DoNotThrowOldPCsAway wrote: ↑16 Apr 2026, 15:14 Anyone else noticed how fast version 148 was only for the whole speed improvement to go away in 149?

Repost of A.I. query:

The-10-Pen · Unread post by **The-10-Pen** » 18 Apr 2026, 16:07

Oops! My v148 test still had a v149 still running. This would have clearly skewed the result.
At any rate, not testing more for now. Got real life to attend to, lol.

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Unread post by **Duke** » 18 Apr 2026, 16:50

The-10-Pen wrote: ↑18 Apr 2026, 14:22 Well, on the unicode.org emoji test, the best way to "quantify" is a ctrl-f search and let it count the results.
fully-qualified
minimally-qualified
unqualified

This is about the Unicode codes that are being used. They have evolved over time. Some old codes are now unqualified and replaced by new ones.
But that doesn't tell me which emojis are displayed and which are not.

The-10-Pen wrote: ↑18 Apr 2026, 14:24 That second web site has no way for me to report a quantified result.
Aside from me manually counting "squares" representing an un-rendered font (which I'm not going to count, sorry).

I'm not asking you to count one by one. But in both pages emojis are sorted by sections or subgroups.
Just tell me which of these subgroups are displaying squares instead of emojis. Or make screen captures if you can.

The-10-Pen · Unread post by **The-10-Pen** » 18 Apr 2026, 17:02

Seems like a sh#tload to screencap.
And the first "video cap" exceeded the attachment size.
I'll see what I can do... But holy h#ll, how would you screencap this sh#t?

The-10-Pen · Unread post by **The-10-Pen** » 18 Apr 2026, 17:18

You'll get no screencaps from me.
That first emoji test page is ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY "pages"
Screencap #1. Page down. Screencap #2. Page down. Sorry, but F Dat.

I can capture as a scrolling video, but I get an "http error" from Board.Eclipse when trying to attach. So again, F Dat.

Unread post by **Duke** » 18 Apr 2026, 19:20

The-10-Pen wrote: ↑18 Apr 2026, 17:02 how would you screencap this sh#t?

Sorry, I thought Chromium had a built-in screenshot tool like Firefox has.
You can use free third party tools which can capture scrolling windows:
PicPick: https://picpick.app/en/download
ShareX: https://github.com/ShareX/ShareX/releases

A portable version is available for both of them.
And to reduce file size save as JPG rather than PNG.

Or maybe you can print as PDF ? If available in Chromium, because Firefox also has this feature. But it may create larger files than JPG images.

The-10-Pen · Unread post by **The-10-Pen** » 18 Apr 2026, 19:43

I'm not playing this GAME.
Chromium has those features also! I have *ZERO* interest in the output, therefore *ZERO* interest in spending *MORE TIME* for this request.

I already use a portable third-party capture for scrolling windows, but it narrowed the width and truncated 80% or so of the screen.
No d@mn clue why. No d@mn need to replace a third-party tool that has worked for EVERYTHING else I've ever needed to capture, pic and video.

Sorry, you are going to have to find somebody else to "do your dirty work".
I have lost any and all interest at this point. If I get bored, and I mean *VERY* bored, I may revisit - but you are better off "finding somebody else".

Besides, emoji's and use thereof is for TEENAGE GIRLS and their PHONE apps. NOT for adults. Just my opinion, of course.
A smiley face or frowny face, a shoulder shrug or thumbs up emoji, sure, adults can use those.

But only a TEENAGE GIRL is going to be PSYCHOLOGICALLY IMPAIRED if a couple dozen out of three or four THOUSAND emoji's don't render.

UCyborg · Unread post by **UCyborg** » 18 Apr 2026, 19:51

For the record, that 4 GB laptop isn't mine, I just set it up at some point for a family member and I don't really have a reason to use it normally, I just happened to used it once in recent times to look something up. Who knows, maybe an old crooked Firefox profile, maybe Windows running for too long and getting crapped...that one does get crazy uptimes. I get by fine with 6 GB on my desktop.

That water company issue is really only in combination with two extensions that I do use. And generally, I don't find local websites to be particularly demanding of features they want. I already minimize the use of the internet and really only regularly lurk on few forums. But few random sites still make the cut, Gmail, GitHub, YouTube...some of the local online shops...

I don't really feel like changing the browser at this point, I just find it to be unnecessary source of additional stress. Unless if the potential replacement is a significant upgrade without additional compromises.

UCyborg · Unread post by **UCyborg** » 18 Apr 2026, 20:32

So CustomCSSforFx project has come to an end as well. And https://github.com/xiaoxiaoflood/firefox-scripts earlier.

Iffy-chan · Unread post by **Iffy-chan** » 18 Apr 2026, 23:18

The-10-Pen wrote: ↑18 Apr 2026, 13:18
the_r3dacted wrote: ↑18 Apr 2026, 13:06
The-10-Pen wrote: ↑16 Apr 2026, 23:41 And H#LL YEAH, CNN *and* Fox! When I tell you I am "purple" and a "centrist", I really am.
I HATE THE "EXTREMISTS" ON BOTH SIDES !!!
Corporate controlled opposition *and* literally argued in court that they were not news and just entertainment, and argued that no sane person would take them seriously. You could do a lot better.
AGREED !!!
There is NO SUCH THING as "televised NEWS" here in the USA.
All we have is "commentators", NOT "journalists".
That goes for Fox, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, *ALL OF THEM*, nothing but COMMENTATORS.
"Journalism" is DEAD.
All we can really do here in the USA is listen to COMMENTS from both sides and THINK FOR YOURSELF (a lost art here in the USA!).

Same here in the UK. In both cases, it's debatable if we ever truly had it. There's a reason (South East) England and the USA are the most hated countries worldwide, and I'm not counting a certain place in this.

The-10-Pen · Unread post by **The-10-Pen** » 18 Apr 2026, 23:37

It wasn't nearly as bad way way WAY back in the day when there was no such thing as a "news channel".

ie, today's "news channels" are 24/7 instead of back in the day where you had "news" for ONE HOUR in the morning then again for ONE HOUR in the evening.

When the "media" only had to cover NEWS for TWO HOURS per day they covered actual NEWS instead of "commentators".

The-10-Pen · Unread post by **The-10-Pen** » 19 Apr 2026, 00:02

I guess I should also add that I get news/commentators from a few dozen sources.
That Fox and CNN screencap just happened to be that instance in time, that time of day.

Unread post by **Duke** » 19 Apr 2026, 02:56

The-10-Pen wrote: ↑18 Apr 2026, 19:43 find somebody else to "do your dirty work".

No dirty work, I just want to make comparisons with the results I got.
But thanks anyway.

The-10-Pen wrote: ↑18 Apr 2026, 19:43 emoji's and use thereof is for TEENAGE GIRLS and their PHONE apps. NOT for adults.

I'm talking about the technical aspect of things. Why does it work in this case but not in this other case, that's what I'm trying to understand.

The-10-Pen · Unread post by **The-10-Pen** » 19 Apr 2026, 09:53

It's pretty much already "common knowledge" that Firefox's TeenMoji (my word, not theirs) offers better emoji support than Chromium.
You can regard this as a "pro", I shall regard it as a "con".
I prefer my fonts to be "standardized" - it it ain't part of my OS, then my browser *can't* use it!
I actually do that *intentionally* - some of the sub-pixel anti-alias BS fonts *literally* (not "figuratively", but LITERALLY) give me MIGRAINES.

The-10-Pen · Unread post by **The-10-Pen** » 19 Apr 2026, 10:31

I want to see/witness YOU jump through all of the F'in Hoops to screencap that emoji test txt BS page (your first link) !!!
I REALLY do not think you fully fathom the extents of your "simple request".

Again, that F'in page is ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY "pages" in length.
Based on "Page Downs" on the scroll bar to get to the bottom. ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY PAGES !!!

My scrolling window capture narrows the page and truncates the right and left and only caps a narrow band down the center.
I suspect CSS table declaration because I can widen the capture by changing CSS on that page.
Time to update my third-party tool? Possible. But this has been the ONLY issue EVER encountered. So no, not updating because of an OUTLIER.

I capture as a video and it exceeds 10MB attachment restriction.
I can scroll rapidly and force it all into 25 seconds and come in below the attachment restriction.
But then Board.Eclipse throws a d@mn error if trying to attach.
So I .zip it. Still get the d@mn error.
So I .7z it. Still get the d@mn error.

I get P*SS#D OFF and delete the .mp4, and the .zip, and the .7z - "your problem, not mine".

You won't "let it die" (my view) so I go the .pdf route today.
24.9 MB (25,563 KB) file size to capture those d@mn ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY PAGES.
Compress it to a .7z and it's only 7.03 MB (7,206 KB) but I ran into a brick F'in wall the last time I tried to attach a .7z (so not even gonna try today).
Doing the same thing twice but expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.
I have to think that you are the insane one here, not me.

(see, adults can use smiley emoji's)

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The-10-Pen · Unread post by **The-10-Pen** » 19 Apr 2026, 10:43

On second though, I DO NOT CARE if you jump through the hoops and successfully capture or not.
This is not a "competition". I am not technically-challenged and am not computer-illiterate. And neither are you.
Even if you do "successfully" capture and attach, THAT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT MY ABILITIES.
It MIGHT speak towards your transparency in declaring this "not as simple" as your "simple request" makes it sound.

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